			    TRAVELLER Digest 3

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: TRAVELLER digest 2	by "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
  2) Things are never smooth	by "David E. Brooks Jr" <dbj@MPGN.COM>
  3) Motorbicycles, Hydroponics, Fusion Drives	by alvin plummer <plummer@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>
  4) ftp	by James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
  5) FTP Archive Status	by rwm@MPGN.COM (Rob Miracle)
  6) TNE products	by PR James <prj91@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
  7) Ship design with FF&S	by PR James <prj91@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
  8) FFS Errata	by "KMCCARTHY" <KMCCARTHY@qmgate.osc.hq.nasa.gov>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 9 Aug 1994 10:55:25 MST
From: "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 2
Message-ID: <MAILQUEUE-101.940809105525.288@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>


>Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 12:46:15 -0500 (CDT) From: 
>ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu (Joseph Heck) To: 

>Yeah!!! TML is back! 


>Open question: Has anyone played with Ship designs in TNE for Tech 
>Level 9? 
>
>This one's a curious &*%&$! in that the minimum power plant size is 
>huge and the contra-grav systems are just beginning to be used. I found 
>it's not really very feasible to make ships that both land on planets and 
>travel the system. I was going to design some ships in that TL, but 
>wanted to check to see what other's had done. 

	Well, I've played a bit, and I agree, you need giant power plants 
and such.  BUT...hey, that's the limitation of TL 9!  It's really hard to 
build spaceships at that TL.  That's exacly why TL 9 cultures use 
shuttles.  IMO the old system was more unreal, in that, for instance, 
scout ships could be built at any tech level 9 on up.  At lower tech levels, 
I doubt anything so small would be built, especially in the TNE univers, 
where any TL 9 culture building spaceships or starships are 
bootstrapping themselves back to space.  Those are going to be large 
efforts, on the scale of the Apollo missions; only larrge nations are going 
to play at that level.

Bruce Johnson
Information Technology/College of Pharmacy
The University of Arizona
johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu 

My opinions, All Mine! Bwahahahahah! 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 16:50:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David E. Brooks Jr" <dbj@MPGN.COM>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: Things are never smooth
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9408091610.A6662-0100000@Central.KeyWest.MPGN.COM>

We had a problem with our mailer for a while this afternoon that 
possibly prevented the return status messages from subscription requests 
and/or subscription modifications.

If you have made a modification (say, to set your mail setting to ACK) 
but did not receive a response, try sending:

	set traveller
	set xboat

in the body of a mail message to listproc@MPGN.COM to see what your 
current status is.

If you subscribed to either the Traveller or the Xboat mailing lists and 
did not receive a acknowledgement, but received this message, you are 
subscribed.

I apologize for this in the most sincere way,

-- Dave Brooks

--
David E. Brooks Jr                                    Phone: (305) 293-8100
Tantalus Incorporated/Multi-Player Games Network        Fax: (305) 292-7835
P.O. Box 2310                                        E-Mail: dbj@mpgn.com
Key West, FL 33045                                    Quote: print chr$(34);


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 17:13:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: alvin plummer <plummer@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Motorbicycles, Hydroponics, Fusion Drives
Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.1.9408091642.A1168-a100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>


Welcome back, everyone!

Any ideals about how to design bikes for TL6 to TL 9?  I've havent
attempted to yet; however, I have heard that any attempt to do so using
FF&S rules lead up to massive engines, weighing in at 500 kg.

Also, does anyone out there have a rule set for hydroponics?  (The Archives
at ftp.engrg.uwo.ca are not accessible)  Hopefully, they would be
relatable to Tech Levels, amount of food production per kilogram, etc.
Fortunately, Rations are taken care of in the TNE manual - they have the
weights I need there.

Finally: It would seem to me that all dedicated naval vessels would have
fusion drives, as they are MUCH faster than HEPlaR is. (Unless I'm reading
the manual wrong)  The only exceptions would be near-orbit vessels and
troop transports.  There would also be the restriction of price, as fusion
drives are rather more expensive then HEPlaR is.

Alvin Plummer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 17:28:24 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: ftp
Message-ID: <9408100028.AA20663@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

Now that the lists are relocated, what happens to the old archive site and
its vast collection of files?  I've been trying to ftp every few days but
have gotten nowhere...

James Kundert <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>
              <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:23:53 -0400
From: rwm@MPGN.COM (Rob Miracle)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: FTP Archive Status
Message-ID: <199408101323.JAA10851@Central.KeyWest.MPGN.COM>

We are working at getting the archives (in some fashion) relocated to
ftp.mpgn.com.  We want to get the old messages at a minimum, and all files
if we can work it out.

Stay tuned to this net.channel for more details.

Rob
--
Rob Miracle
traveller-request@mpgn.com


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 17:05:31 +0100 (BST)
From: PR James <prj91@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TNE products
Message-ID: <29617.9408101605@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk>

Is there a FAQ for this list that lists all the TNE supplements etc currently
available? If there is could someone mail me it. If not could someone mail me
such a list if it isn't too much trouble.
================================================================================
Paul James                                  ____________________
prj91@ecs.soton.ac.uk                      /  __________________O
kraken@mail.soton.ac.uk                   /  /|________________
                                         /  /_/________________O
"Beware the many tentacled one."        /_____________________
                                       |______________________O

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 17:06:29 +0100 (BST)
From: PR James <prj91@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Ship design with FF&S
Message-ID: <29666.9408101606@titian.ecs.soton.ac.uk>

I'm new to the traveller universe and having never seen any traveller or mega-
traveller rules for ship building I'm having a couple of problems with the rules
given in Fire Fusion & Steel. I was hoping someone would be able to help out
with the following problems:

Is the surface area of a hull calulated including the hull plating thickness or
excluding it?

How much fuel capacity should a ship have? Enough for one jump, 10?

How is the number of crewstations and workstations required calulated????

Are the cost, size and power of navigational aids the same nomatter what size
ship they are fitted to or are the figures given per displacement ton?

Can a ship have a computer of a tech level higher than its control system?

Is it possible to have retractable turrets (so a ship can be equipped with a
turret and still remain streamlined)?

How are costs for fuel scoops calculated? You work out how many you want as a
percentage of the total surface area, but the costs are given per cubic metre.
Does one cubic metre of fuel scoop cover 1 square metre of surface area or 10,
does tech level affect this?

Thanks for any help you can provide a travller newbie (who tried to design a
traveller equivalent of a deathstar but gave up after he got lost in the
complexities of the rules;-)

================================================================================
Paul James                                  ____________________
prj91@ecs.soton.ac.uk                      /  __________________O
kraken@mail.soton.ac.uk                   /  /|________________
                                         /  /_/________________O
"Beware the many tentacled one."        /_____________________
                                       |______________________O

------------------------------

Date: 10 Aug 1994 12:34:46 U
From: "KMCCARTHY" <KMCCARTHY@qmgate.osc.hq.nasa.gov>
To: "New TML Broadcast" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: FFS Errata
Message-ID: <199408101726.NAA00378@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

                       Subject:                               Time:12:27 PM
  OFFICE MEMO          FFS Errata                             Date:8/10/94
Hello to all.  The two messages below were sent to the old TML while it was in
death throws and I doubt that anyone ever saw them.

I've posted the full text of the second and third message for completeness. 
The original message pointed out the TL-10 ACR design example on page 154 of
FFS violated GDW's rules on slug weapon design on FFS p. 92. 


Kevin Mc Carthy.  
===================================================================
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com (7/14/94)
To: KMCCARTHY

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               FF&S Correction
The minimum length of a necked cartridge is now 30mm. Thanks for pointing
this out to us.

 Loren Wiseman

=============================================================================
From: Derek Wildstar (7/1/94)
To: KMCCARTHY

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               RE> FFS ERRATA
You wrote:
> The small arm design example on page 154 of Fire, Fusion and Steel doesn't not
> conform to the rules presented and needs to be fixed.  

There are also several arithmetic errors in the example, and at least one
apparent violation of the design rules.  It's a bad example.

> Page p92 of FFS states
> that, "Necked cartridges carry a longer, heavier bullet than do straight
> cartridges , and the cartridge case must me 35mm long in order to be necked."

Not only does their example design not follow their own rules, I can locate
several real-world cartridges [*] which violate this "rule".  The official word
from GDW is that these cartridges aren't really necked, they just look that
way.

The cartridge dimensions in FF&S are just "random numbers" anyway, you won't
get anything approaching real world muzzle energies if you use a real
world cartridge combined with a real world barrel length.  Get a copy of
your favorite ballistics data, and plug in some values.  They can be pretty
far off.

GDW recommends varying the TL of the round until you get approximately the
right energy.  My suggestion is to chuck the whole idea of attempting to
match real world cartridge dimensions, and select a design that supplies the
right muzzle energy when combined with the appropriate length barrel.

> The TL 10 7mm (ETC) Design Example in Appendix III, page154 states that  the
> weapon being designed has a cartridge case type of Necked, cartridge case
> lenth: 30mm.  This design clearly does not follow the rules laid out.

Consider the rule a general suggestion, and then proceed to ignore it.  As I
mentioned earlier, there are other problems with the design example in
Appendix III.  The whole thing should be re-worked from the beginning to
follow the rules as presented in FF&S.

> I suggest, in addition to the design being reworked, that a note be inserted in
> the Ammunition Evaluation section, page 92-93, that clearly identifies this
> rule.

[*] These include the following rounds: the 5.56x29mm (Colt ".22 SCAMP"
    7.62x25mm (.30 Mauser), 8.00x21mm (8mm Nambu), and 7.92x33mm (Sturmgewehr
    44).  All of these are real-world rounds (and all but the Colt SCAMP
    relatively important, too).  The rule seems to be an overbroad
    generalization.  Necked cartridges are used whenever the required
    propellant volume is larger than a stright cartridge would allow, and
    the designer doesn't want to lengthen the cartridge.  Maybe this
    should read "... and the cartridge case is usually longer than 35mm."


wildstar@quark.qrc.com

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End of TRAVELLER Digest 3
*************************
